Is It Better To Be Self-taught Or To Get Lessons?

[Jules]

This might seem like a stupid question, but I'm curious.

I got a guitar and a bass last year at the same time, because my cousin was moving and had one of each to give me, because he couldn't take them all to college.

So I started taking guitar lessons. But I put off the bass lessons because, (and this bit might sound stupid) every successful or brilliant musician that I can personally think of say they were self-taught.

It might not have any significance, but I've noticed that the best musicians that I either meet, hear about or listen to tend to be self-taught.

Is that coincidental? Or does taking lessons actually somehow hinder your musical abilities?

Like I said, it might seem stupid, but I really do wonder.

I've put off having bass lessons for a year because of this. I now tend to play bass a lot more than the guitar. Riffs come much easier to me on the bass.

But I might get bass lessons depending on what people here have to say.

What do you think? Am I crazy and superstitous or does this theory hold some merit?

[typo]

i'm self taught on guitar, but i did that on the back of having lessons on other instruments.

i'd go for a few lessons with a teacher that teaches the styles you are interested in, and then get the odd lesson from time to time.

Edited May 4, 2008 by typo

[Steve]

Speaking as someone who is completely self taught, I would advise you get some lessons. While I was sat in my room trying to work out what the hell was going on? Everybody was having lessons and leaving me behind! Get the basics from a good teacher. Then work on your style and sound.

[Jules]

Cool, thanks for the advice. I'll get some bass lessons booked then.

[roxhythe]

Easy for me to say, "Lessons are good"--I've never had any. I'll just pass on one piece of advice I got (not personally, of course) from the legendary Chet Atkins. When asked how much music theory you needed to know, his respnse was, "Enough to know what you're doing, and not enough to get in the way of your doing it."

Lots of luck.

Joe

[Lazz]

every successful or brilliant musician that I can personally think of say they were self-taught.

Is that coincidental? Or does taking lessons actually somehow hinder your musical abilities?

I've put off having bass lessons for a year because of this.

Hey Jules.

Just chiming in to support what the other guys say.

Everybody learns from somewhere. Even the most obstinately self-taught listened hard to those who excited them about playing. That’s a form of study. And that’s exactly the same motivation which gives value to lessons = what you want to learn from them.

You might split what you can learn into two areas: musical and technical.

By musical I mean developing your ability to make workable sense of ways to organise sound – harmony and theory, however much people diss it and persist with this absurd suggestion that knowledge and understanding could be ever be considered a hindrance, can simply save a huge amount of faffling about in pointless random directions.

Technical is pretty damn crucial, too – and postponing this area of study can be detrimental. A few years after I bought my first typewriter, I asked somebody for lessons. ‘No way!’ they said. Seems like I had spent far too long teaching myself how to do it wrong and was now considered beyond redemption. I would have to unlearn stuff, de-programme muscle memory, erase all acquired habits, before I could learn the more effective tried and tested. So just in the technical aspect of the most effective tried and tested way of getting around the fingerboard, I would be concerned that you don’t create too many problems for yourself that may be tough to eradicate.

And once you get a lesson or two, of course, then the onus of practice is yours.

Practice is what makes people successful or brilliant.

Lessons can make practice more effective.

Me ? I am largely self-taught and stumbled around ineffectually with little understanding of what I was doing for many wasted years. In my mid-30s, I took a couple of theory and harmony lessons from a very hip guy and it was like suddenly having a light switched on. Brilliant. If only I had have known that stuff before, I would have benefitted so much more from everything I had struggled to learn on my own.

But my typing is still crap.

[Steve]

In case you don't know Jules, Typewriter. It's what they used to use in the olden days.

[thelevellers]

Lol @ Steve...

I will also agree with the rest. I was self taught until last summer, when I had some lessons - I went in with some specific skills I wanted to learn (finger picking was one) and I was really sad when the teacher moved away and I had to stop the lessons, cause I learnt so much so quickly, and it really got me excited about playing guitar...

Practicing between lessons is essential to the amount of good they'll do, I play guitar every day for at least half an hour (not very structured any more, sadly), but when I was having lessons this increased, so I could learn the new stuff each week, without having to 'carry it over' to the next lesson.

Finally, I am still annoyed that my music theory is lacking, as I'm useless at knowing what key something is in, and even once I do know, it doesn't help cause I never learnt my scales properly It's on my big long list of things to do...

Rohan

[Mazrocon]

I neve took any lessons for keyboard or piano. I'd say i'm doing fine... Although i'm not sure either way. I don't take lessons cause I don't think i'd have the time. I'd instead rather, stay at home goofing on it until I stumble upon something great Lessons might help you a bit but overall i'd suggest not taking them.

~TIMOTHY~

[Roflcopter]

Being auto-didact means you have to muster an enormous amount of discipline, and be pretty smart, in order to figure out stuff others get on a platter. It's not for everyone.

[Guitargodchris]

I say it all depends on how much you practice, like there is a friend of mine that never went to school and he used to stay home and play guitar everyday for 12 hours plus, nowadays he is an amazing guitarist and is just amazing to watch.

Practice Makes Perfect !

I have to say that I am completely self-taught and I have just started learning chords and chords really help with your playing and finger placement, I regret that I did'nt learn them sooner.

Chris

[neoteric]

I have mixed feelings about this, particularly because when I took guitar lessons a long time ago, my instructor never showed me how to fret notes properly, and he never corrected this during my lesson. I've learned a great deal about music and the different aspects of it just by reading up on it. Sometimes these music lessons are like walking into your first Spanish class and your instructor just starts speaking in Spanish, expecting you to eventually pick up on what he's saying without explaining anything to you.

[Nightwolf]

how bout this?

Lessons are like going to the gym, it helps force you into a disciplined regime of work or practice.

Discipline will work without lessons

Lessons will NOT work without discipline

[Nick]

If you become really famous it's best to be self taught as it has more kudos somehow. (Stephane Grapelli is an example that comes to mind of a self taught master in his field with influence, distinctive sound, innovation, etc etc)

Otherwise having lessons is much the best. I've never had lessons myself so am full of awful habits and I'm sure it limits my playing. Having played for quite a long time it's now as hard to unlearn things (perhaps harder) as it is learn new things.

My son is no mean slouch on the guitar and practices A LOT. But he has a solid technical base to work from from his guitar teacher and that lays solid ground for his playing. As his playing improves he has the basic techniques sitting there and go move forward speed-wise and sound wise. His previous teacher taught less technique and more feel but my son wanted to have some formal qualifications so that he can move onto college in a couple of years and his previous teacher didn't do grades. He's doing his grade 8 on guitar this month.

He also learned loads when he went down to a course with John Wheatcroft at Bath University in the summer.

When I play anything lead-like on a guitar my lack of fluidity and technique shows through and I doubt I will ever change that dramatically.

Bass wise I can move round a bass reasonably well but again have limited technique.

Acoustic fingerpicking wise I have lots of limits I come up against and could really do with unravelling my technique and starting again.

I learn a lot currently from on eof the people that I play with by watching rather than formal learning. Strumming a guitar is also an enormous skill and the skill he has with a pick is something I learn a lot from. Much of that is just trying to keep an even strum in a jig rhythm and keep it up for the length of a tune set with variations. It looks the easiest thing in the world but isn't... (I have a friend who tries, and practices, and practices but can't get it).

You could practice for ever...

Edited October 28, 2008 by Nick

[Lazz]

Stephane Grapelli is an example that comes to mind of a self taught master in his field with influence, distinctive sound, innovation, etc etc

Not quite.

Stéphane's dad gave him his first lessons along with his first violin when he was 13 years old.

Three years later he entered the Paris Conservatory.

Just like Zander, he made startling progress because he loved it, because he was hard-working and focussed, and not least because he had people around to show him the way.

[Rudi]

I didnt get any lessons, but would recommend them anyway. If you do get lessons, try to get them from the best teacher you can find (this is not always the best stylist), one with a good all round musical knowledge. Dont try to ecconomise on lessons.

If you do go it alone. prepare to spend half your life re-inventing the wheel. On the plus side, the wheel you end up with will be unique (mine has invisible spokes and hardly any tread).

[Lazz]

One guy who just suddenly leapt to mind as "self taught master in his field with influence, distinctive sound, innovation".... is Erroll Garner.

He was a real wierdo - in an extremely good way - but definitely not normal.

Started playing piano at age 3 and grew up in the shadow of his elder piano-playing brother, Linton. (I only know this stuff through my friendship with brother Linton). Erroll was completely ambidextrous, for a start - could sign autographs with both hands and you couldn't tell the difference - could face the keyboard backwards and reach behind himself to play - perfectly - was also known to reach over the piano from behind it (had to climb on top of something to do this, cos he was quite short) and play it that way - also perfectly. And he had phenomenal powers of memory - he used to go along to classical concerts and then come home and play huge chunks of the repertoire he'd heard and filed away uncannily in brain cells..... That sort of wierdo.

But they still never let him in the union for many years because he didn't read music.

(eventually they relented)

Still don't know quite how far to take the idea of being completely self-taught though....

Music was around in the family, just as it was aall round in the Pittsburgh neighbourhood.... among his schoolmates there was Billy Strayhorn, for instance, who was work-horse muse for Duke Ellington, and also Ahmad Jamal, who was a major influence on Miles Davis.... and most of the Miles rhythm sections were local and would hang at the house.... so he definitely grew within the established muso community.... so, while not necessarily being a formal education, that sort of thing, increasingly rare these days, is surely an education of an immeasurably special and irreplaceable kind.

Wes Montgomery didn't read music either - but he, too, had music constantly in the family - the Montgomery brothers were all great.

George Benson didn't know how to read either - though he probably does a bit better now.

Would they be self-taught ?

They all definitely studied hard.

If you can get lessons - take 'em, I say.

But it's up to you to study hard.

As Linton said, "You have to practice everyday..... and you have to do a lot of washing-up!"

[Nick]

Lessons and practice help you play this sort of stuff that I happened to record my son playing when we were practicing tonight - PRACTICE - and a phrase something like that without the mistakes will turn up in a solo or piece of playing one day. It's where technique helps. It's about a weeks worth of notes for me in about 7 seconds

Edited November 5, 2008 by Nick

[Lazz]

this sort of stuff

Wow !!

[AnaMZ]

I'm definitely on the lessons side. But with a few caveats.

1.) Shop around and find the best possible teacher. Many teachers just put in the time for the money. It's worth it to pay a little more to get someone on the same wave-length.

2.) Insist on learning theory as part of the practice regimen.

3.) Insist on a measurable plan of improvement.

4.) Put in the time necessary to practice and learn from the plan.

5.) Augment the plan by doing your own research and taking any questions that arise from this to your teacher.

It is very important to not only learn how to play the instrument but to have a plan that you both participate in.

On the other hand, if you do take the self-taught route, make sure you document everything you learn. Keep a notebook, write yourself questions, look for answers to those questions, etc. There is nothing wrong with being self-taught, but it will take longer.

Couldn't agree more! Don't be afraid to ask (nicely) what your teacher's musical background is - did they teach themselves (do they have any habitual technique flaws that they might end up transferring to you?)? Do they usually play the style of music that you're most interested in playing? Can they teach you theory?

Edited April 11, 2012 by AnaMZ