Is It Better To Be Self-taught Or To Get Lessons?

[BigBubbaBrown]

Both, depending on your level of knowledge and how you learn best. If you have absolutely no knowledge of music theory to begin with then lessons are a necessity. My "lessons" came in the form of school band, where I learned more than the other percussionists because I was the only one willing to learn melodic percussion along with rhythmic percussion. I was lucky, though, because my unique status in the section allowed me to learn both my chosen instrument and lay the foundation for instruments I wouldn't care about for another year or two.

That foundation, which can still be laid after high school if you're willing to pay for lessons, allowed me to move on from a single snare, concert/marching bass drum, and tri-toms to a full drum set, and my training on melodic percussion allowed me to move on to piano, keyboards, organ, etc. The theory aspect allowed me to start teaching myself on guitar, fiddle, tin whistle, and if I ever get a bass I'd imagine it won't take me too long to grasp the basics of it.

If you already know music theory and learn best by doing then self taught is the way to go. All you need to know is that a fret is one semitone and the rest will come to you once you start looking up fingering charts online. If you don't know what a semitone is, though, then without lessons, even if it's just in music theory and not tied to a specific instrument, teaching yourself will give you the worst possible teacher on the student end and a virtually unteachable student from the standpoint of a teacher.

In other words, if you don't have at least a foundation you'll be like a blind man stepping on rocks to cross a river. You might make it to the other side, then again you could just end up soaked.

[LayneGreene]

I think theres a nice balance to be reached with lessons. Everyone has things they can improve on, and a lot of these things you won't ever think about. That being said there are other things that you're just wasting your money on because especially with the internet you can teach yourself a fair bit.

[DogmaticRock]

This might seem like a stupid question, but I'm curious.

I got a guitar and a bass last year at the same time, because my cousin was moving and had one of each to give me, because he couldn't take them all to college.

So I started taking guitar lessons. But I put off the bass lessons because, (and this bit might sound stupid) every successful or brilliant musician that I can personally think of say they were self-taught.

It might not have any significance, but I've noticed that the best musicians that I either meet, hear about or listen to tend to be self-taught.

Is that coincidental? Or does taking lessons actually somehow hinder your musical abilities?

Like I said, it might seem stupid, but I really do wonder.

I've put off having bass lessons for a year because of this. I now tend to play bass a lot more than the guitar. Riffs come much easier to me on the bass.

But I might get bass lessons depending on what people here have to say.

What do you think? Am I crazy and superstitous or does this theory hold some merit?

I'm self-tought on the keyboard and voice and now doing so with the bass. I believe self-knowledge is the greatest type of knowledge there is.

[Mahesh]

I'm self-tought on the keyboard and voice and now doing so with the bass. I believe self-knowledge is the greatest type of knowledge there is.

Ah,I agree with this to quite an extent but not completely. I feel it needs a lot more determination and effort(and maybe time) to get to the same point a person who is taught by a teacher would be in,within a short period of time. If you actually look at it,it can be a good thing or a bad thing.

Good part is that it will make you a little less lazy and forces you to find out about things yourself,as a result,in my opinion would have a bit more dedication involved. You also have the freedom to learn in whatever way you want to as opposed to following JUST what your teacher says.

The bad part in my opinion is that,when you are learning on your own and if you are a beginner,you tend to lose interest in more technical aspects like learning theory(usually when you try to and dont get it). When you are taking lessons,atleast you are forced into learning it anyways.

I know the most likely reply or thinking to this would be "if you are not dedicated enough,its your problem" but thats another advantage taking lessons.When you are taking lessons, even if you are not dedicated enough,as you move on from the basics to more advanced/actual playing,you cultivate that dedication needed all by your own interest.

My opinion,if you already play an instrument and if you are planning on learning another one,then self teaching might work out for you,maybe even better than taking lessons.

If you are starting out, dont say no to lessons if you have it as an option(Agreeing with Lazz). You can do some self learning along with your classes.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Mahesh
If I sound like im rambling,please ignore,Im very sleepy & tired today lol

[TapperMike]

What does it mean to be self taught and what is the role you want the teacher to play? As well what are your intentions as a musician? Do you simply want to perform songs? Do you want to understand them? Do you want to write them? Some people don't see "making music" as a creative experience and some people even those of great ability don't have the talent for writing music.

About being self taught, None of us are. We learn from someone.. Be it reading music, or listening and watching others. The bonus of a teacher is we get feedback. No one discovers music in a vaccum. If you get too much feedback you are denied you experience of discovery (as Bill Evans would say)

If you are teaching a young person your responsibilites lay in providing an end product for the parent. That is usally a song performance rather then knowledge. Learning songs builds confidence more then learning theory. And confidence is very important in music.

I've taught. I've had students that thought just by being in the room with me osmosis would occur and they'd be great. They'd sit and look without seeing. hear without listening and wouldn't take the time to apply themselves to their instrument. They were lazy and no amount of effort on my behalf would change that. Some were slightly more motivated and would want to learn a lick but not the scale it was in so have no means to connect the dots or the complete song. The had a little more ability but were also lazy. I'd usually pass those off to other teachers who were more interested in getting money for the lesson then trying to instill the basis of knowledge.

Many teachers are great and some are crap. Some are just like students. Fixated on licks, or fixated on mechanics in general and they may have great abilites but aren't able to translate that into offering what a student needs. I've actually gone through quite a number of teachers. Some were just there for a paycheck, some were fixated on the mechanical. A lot of schools focus on ripping any sense of creativity out of a student for the sake of deveoping the performance value. If you are going to pay big bucks to an accredited music school you'd better walk away with the skills and the contacts to "make it in the business"

I've been through a few teachers. Some were great at what they did but were lost if even slightly out of their realm. I remember this one time my regular teacher wasn't there for the scheduled lesson and I got a different one. I was in the middle of transcribing Joe Jackson's "Breaking Us in Two " The instrumental version. The sub teacher had absolutely no clue. He was a serious rock guitarist in a serious hard rock band and was blindsided by it. And he admitted it. Instead he showed me a few blues turnarounds which I still remember to this day. and have used on countless blues gigs. So I did get something valuable out of the lesson. But my point is not all teachers know everything they can't.

So my point at the end of this is expect to go through a few teachers. Make your expectations clear when looking for a teacher. If you say I want to learn folk don't settle for a jazz or rock teacher. They may have some abilites in that field but not enough and if they can't focus. Stick with the direction you choose and stick to your expectations.

Don't expect a teacher to hand you your abilites. Some people come naturally to the instrument. Others don't. As well somethings come easier then others. There were things that came naturally to me and others that didn't. Many times you have to bite the bullet and fight your way through and there are others where it's just time to walk away.

[Bang1]

Lessons are always great.. If you got it you got it...but being self taught is a gift!

[seerskater]

miles davis once said something like "you need to have someone tell you how to play it first, and then you turn around and play it how you want."

[James Anderson]

lessons or not having lessons is one question i would say if you learn things your self theres a fair chance you will learn some thing that no one else knows in a sence you become arule maker and a rule breaker the way i look at it go with your tallent 

[Rudi]

Starting : Lessons: Its one hell of a lot faster to learn.

 

Starting : Do it yourself: Everything you discover, you learn very very well.

 

After some years : Lessons: You might end up just doing as you are told. You could become a version of your teacher.

 

After some years : Do it yourself: You will always have gaps, and it will take ages to narrow them.

[Just1L]

I took lessons when I started and think that was a great idea for me but for the most part I'm self taught. Regardless of the method the most important thing is to practice, practice, practice and then practice some more. If you have the time play as much as you can. While lessons are great, it's the practicing afterwards that makes you better.

[Farina]

Lessons.  At least the basic foundation of music, scales and general theory.  You can apply what you learn to every instrument you pick up.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Farina

[JackHalkabar]

i think you can learn a lot just by watching your favorite musicians, though i believe a few lessons can't really hurt...

[Kel]

Not mentioned above, but be careful with reading music.

 

Whoa, calm down everyone!

 

I received piano lessons as a kid, and as such I learned to read music. Maybe it's just me, but I always used my ability to read music, I believe to the detriment of my ear. I have never been able to listen to something, and then play it, like a know a lot of peeps who don't read music can. To, it appears related, it may not be, but from my perspective it is.

 

If you read music now, get really good at it. If you don't read music now, don't learn if you want to be a musician only. If you want to write, and being on this forum I'm guessing that's a yes, learn as much theory as you can digest. However I know songwriters who aren't big on theory, so pay your money and makes your choices!

 

I also play guitar, never recieved a formal lesson, but was shown basics by friends, and I have watched videos on You-tube and bought video lessons. A good teacher will be a tremendous boost to you, I'm guessing.

 

Cheers,

Kel

[TapperMike]

 

 

I received piano lessons as a kid, and as such I learned to read music. Maybe it's just me, but I always used my ability to read music, I believe to the detriment of my ear. I have never been able to listen to something, and then play it, like a know a lot of peeps who don't read music can. To, it appears related, it may not be, but from my perspective it is.

 

 

I'm a slow notation reader as I learned later in life and read music less now then I did in the past. 

 

Playing by ear doesn't make one remember more easily.  I used to teach guitar and a lot of times it requires transcribing music.  Usually it starts with getting one note or chord right then following (is the next note up or down, how far is it up or down) This is really about relative pitch.  As much as I would transcribe I'd rarely remember what I had transcribed for others.  Because....lessons are a half hour long and when that half hour is up I'd be showing a different student something else. 

 

When you read music you are listening with your eyes.  When you hear music (and are trying to figure it out) you are reading with your ears.  "Ear reading" actually takes considerably longer to figure out songs (even for a piss poor sight reader like me) then reading notation.  Ear reading and Sight listening become a crutch.  Because you have to see or hear the music in order to play it. To really memorize a piece walk away from hearing it and seeing it and try to remember what you played.  It actually takes less time not more to really learn a song for life this way.

 

 

This next tidbit comes from both Howard Roberts (famous jazz guitarist who started GIT and the other musicians Institutes as well as has a few guitars named after him and a great book -

http://www.amazon.com/Inner-Game-Music-Barry-Green/dp/0385231261

 

We have outer ears and inner ears just as we have an outer voice or instrument an we have an inner voice or instrument.  That song... the one that gets stuck in your head every once in awhile.  That's your inner voice speaking to your inner ear.  If you are consumed by outside sounds you can't hear the inside ones.  Turn off the radio and think of a song you know.  Imagine yourself playing it because, you are playing it via your inner voice to your inner ear. If you do this regularly melodies will seem to pop out at you. It may be someone elses song it may be "your song".

 

Keep the song in your head don't turn on the radio.  Try to play it again in your head.  Then later tap it out. Don't be concerned with key or notes simply the rhythm.  Then try to play it on your instrument. Don't worry if it isn't how you imagined it.  Focus on what you imagined and work it out to something as close as possible.  Sometimes through playing you find something better then you originally thought of. That's okay, be flexible.

 

When I first found out about this. I turned off the radio while driving and though about songs I was trying to memorize in performance. I imagined playing songs I was trying to memorize. It cut down memorization time considerably and helped me to play the song "blind" faster then either "reading sounds" or Hearing notation because it reduced the crutch.

 

I also used to keep a simple cassette deck with a built in mic near my bed. If an idea came to me I'd try and play it.  One take then off to bed.  When I'd wake up I'd listen to what I played and see if I remembered what I was thinking.  It was rough but I got better at getting the idea in my head out. 

 

...Sometimes what I thought was a great idea of mine turned out to be a cover of a song that I didn't realize until I hear it.  Or at least very similar and in the process I

Edited August 14, 2013 by TapperMike

[TapperMike]

Truncated post 

 

Hear is the rest

...Sometimes what I thought was a great idea of mine turned out to be a cover of a song that I didn't realize until I hear it.  Or at least very similar and in the process I'd get turned around and try to figure out the song.  Then I'd do work arounds to make it sound different then the cover.

 

The above methods of focusing mental energies playing songs with my inner voice and having the inner ear available for listening then trying to get what is in me helped the following:

 

-Developing a better sense of relative pitch.

-Made me less dependent on outside sources (reading/listening) in order to learn songs.

-Improved my song writing ability as I was focused on what was in my head as opposed to outside forces.

-Improved my improvisational skills

[Rudi]

Mike,

 

I never realised this, but perhaps I should of done. I normally need a few moments of quiet in order to recall the details of a song properly.

 

I am far less good at learning my ear than I used to be. I surmise that its because I rarely do it now.

 

 

But my process was always listen closely to the music, then turn it off. Once its off, listen to the part you retain in your head to inform the playing.

[Alistair]

This then takes us into the realm of whether you really 'write' songs if you don't write down the music either as notation or tab or even just chords. Ultimately it's what the song sounds like that is important so it will probably only be other musicians who will care if you never learnt how to write the music out.

[TapperMike]

Mike,

 

I never realised this, but perhaps I should of done. I normally need a few moments of quiet in order to recall the details of a song properly.

 

I am far less good at learning my ear than I used to be. I surmise that its because I rarely do it now.

 

 

But my process was always listen closely to the music, then turn it off. Once its off, listen to the part you retain in your head to inform the playing

 

Rudi,

 

I'm addicted to band in a box because it's there visually with the chord chart, I can pull up the tab or notation or fretboard view in seconds and I've got the whole song right in front of me.  But when I walk away or close the program my mind goes blank.  I love the program and it's a crutch. 

 

You are in the position of playing a great deal of songs regularly as you play out often.  All those songs are stored in your muscle memory so you don't have to think about them as much.  100 songs memorized will take a performer very far and they'll be less in wanting of learning new material.  Older less used material seems to fade away.  I used to be like that with my blues and rock cover bands. I got very very good at playing songs of others and the crowds really weren't interested in my originals. 

 

The thing is you....think.  Many are too quick to absorb themselves with cell phones and facebook and what's on tv all outside distractions which block the "inner ear/inner voice" from getting a chance to get out.  It's why when you have some free time sitting somewhere you can work out musical ideas where as others can't/don't.

 

Allistar,

 

There isn't one or two 12 bar blues progressions that the blues is written with.  There are actually 60+ variations (not key not tempo or "style" but actually different ways to approach it.  As well there are 16 bar blues progressions (rock this town - stray cats) 8 bar and even 9 bar blues progressions.  That's not even including the Gospel/soul progressions that often find there way into blues settings.  As well there are other devices aside from simple substitution to rewrite progressions.  So if you find a commonality with another song in regards to the progression there are ways to rewrite it in a manner that seems less common. 

 

Progressions are not the only way to write music, even popular music.  Progressions can be laid on after the fact if the melody is strong enough.  Good melodies stand on there own without the need of supporting instruments.  Writing music is much like writing a short story.  There are plots and recurring themes. And sometimes it's not what you say as much as how you say it that makes the difference.  That being said while some mathematicians speculate that given the limited number of combinations of our twelve tone system and metering all the songs that could be written may already have been.  We just don't recognize them as such.

 

I've brought this up in the past but I'll bring it up again.  I used to be a studio musician.  Mostly performing jingles and occasionally supporting a local "singer" on there way to fame, fortune or obscurity.  The producer was the writer.  The trick about jingles is make them "seem" like someone has heard it before.  So it falls on the ears more naturally the first time out and is remembered by consumers more quickly.  The way to do this is to take a song that may have been modestly popular and re write it. (key, progression, substitutions) so it doesn't sound like the original.  Often one would juxtaposition two songs like the beginning of one and the end of another.  It does take work and imagination but it's a cookie cutter operation and time is of the essence. 

....More

[TapperMike]

Anyway back to commercial jingles.  There is a popular house hold air freshener that uses part of Here Comes my Baby by the Tremeloes  and part of another song.  Chase Bank also used "Here Comes My Baby" in a commercial but they paid for the rights. 

An odd hobby of mine is that when I'm sitting around watch a tv show. I listen to the background music in the show and in the commercials and try to figure out where I've heard them before.   It's a huge distraction and shouldn't be done in the company of wives or girlfriends.  I'll listen to it.  think about it, rewind and listen again. Think about it a bit more and try to figure it out.

 

I recall reading something from either Maslow or Berne (I can't recall which) in regards to a pianist that had a crisis of consciousness in regards to wring, improvising, performing.  He had a wealth of material to draw from stored in his collected unconsciousness and had a lifetime of performance. To wit he concluded that "maybe it's not him doing anything"  Muscle memory has a habit of going on autopilot after you've played a song years on end. You don't have to think about what you are doing you just play the song.  If you are open to your collective unconscious you'll hear ideas that may or may not be your own and you just follow through.  You may not realize if it's your own song or someone else's until it's out of you and others might not recognize the source either.  Guitarists spend years working out "chops" that ultimately influence their playing style to the point they can't escape themselves.  David Gilmour (Pink Floyd) put out a solo album and many were disappointed that it sounded too much like his PF stuff.  He couldn't escape himself. 

 

The conclusion from the author was this.... The good news is you don't have to escape yourself.  You don't have to be not yourself to write something new. (Ricky Nelson tried and failed miserably).  And most importantly if you can't differentiate between what is truly and originally yours from what may be your mechanical (muscle memory) skill set, your technical knowledge. or your memories

 

Accept that it's still coming from you, because it's all of the above that define your playing style and while you may be influenced by others it doesn't make you them or your material theirs.

Edited August 15, 2013 by TapperMike

[TapperMike]

On a final note.

 

I'm thinking of writing a series of articles on song(music) covering where most intro music theory leaves out and where real writing/arranging begins.