Hit Song Challenge - Pt 1

[Dakota Cochran]

12 hours ago, john said:

 

Sound good?

 

Yes indeed,

Thank you very much for a timely and complete reply John!

 

[john]

3 hours ago, Dakota Cochran said:

Yes indeed,

Thank you very much for a timely and complete reply John!

 

no worries

[Cody]

Old thread, but I'm on board

[john]

awesome. It kind of stalled but even if there is just one group, these challenges are intended as personal challenges, to be eductaional and fun, and to hopefully help members work together. I am sure there are a few members who would enjoy it

[john]

1 hour ago, Patchez said:

What were the results?

Also, define or example best, or even good music. 
Define poor music.

 

No results (as you can see)

 

poorly worded, I was referring to quality

[john]

1 hour ago, Patchez said:

Lawyers, God love 'em... 

The Lawyer, to be "honest" ?  would need to, in a simple language summary disclosure that s/he/they are/is a non-exlusive agent. As well be available for explanation or redirect to further simpler language since they may want to otherwise charge for every breath that intake to exhale you ones behalf, -- so to speak. Some charge $10 a breath in, no charge to exhale   

Also, in considering international contract law enforcement and only in countries that may engage that it has to be understood that the, say, so to speak, "party of less control" or understanding is defaulted to if a misunderstanding or disadgrement occurs and at no cost to them. 

Now, I don't comment this with any agenda or wish for one way or the other, but, this is where it gets "expensive", - and missed by some. In many instances the "lesser party" may actually be the benevolent platform seeking to facilitate, -- "Art". But then some, as we see today so prolifically, ... but then some "Antie-Fah" types sees into it a manufactured issue and unless agreed with and changed as per, -- it "Kills the Flow", so to speak. 

Hold harmless, indemnification addendums as priority, upfront can aleviate the "Complicated" verbage of if then shall or may krappolla. 

 -- Not that I know anything about it, but happened to cross my mind when read this this morning-first coffee (American, not Irish, - no wiskey yet  ) 

 

Sadly/thankfully lol the absence of contract does not remove legal responsibility.

 

Contracts lay out jurisdiction. Songstuff is based in the UK. Specifically it is Scots law that would apply. International commitments under the Berne convention would apply because the UK has signed up to the Berne convention. Indemnification is indeed part of it. It is generally good for participating members, Songstuff community, and me personally, that obligation and the simple terms of any agreement are understood as clearly as possible... so that includes, where possible, plain language explanations. It is better protection for all concerned than no contract at all.

 

In plain terms, many sites don't use contracts other than their terms of service (which IS a contract). Sites and individuals that wander outside of TOS are in very dodgy territory. For example, a number of YouTube channels that promote indie music are one law suite away from losing their house. They may have additional TOS posted (on top of YouTube's own) but agreement is week and the terms are completely unenforceable. For them to mean anything, contracts need to be reasonable within the eyes of the law otherwise a judge will just rip them up. In the case of Songstuff, well before I lost my house, Songstuff would close. I know of several websites that have met that fate. One in question was sued by an author after a member posted a harsh review of her book (yes, seriously). Paying to fight that suit shut the site.

 

Without a contract almost always sees the "lil guy" as the injured party. It might kill the flow, but without some legal protections Songstuff would be breaking the law big time.

 

So, for example, if we were sent a video and uploaded that video to YouTube, we agree to YouTube's TOS that we have permission to upload and to grant THEM permission to distribute and re-distribute that video. If we do not have permission then every time someone shares that video, every time it is embedded, they break the law in sharing content without permission. Due to indemnity clauses, we (read John) would be libel. As I have nothing in writing I would be left with the bill if the person who sent me that video changed their mind. Much as I would like to put all my faith in goodwill, I've been bitten more than once by those who intentionally or unintentionally have abused goodwill. At great personal cost.

 

As I am going out of my way to promote their work, for nothing, unpaid, I don't think it unreasonable to have the same protections any site has? Now we could put these conditions into our TOS. But that is weaker than an explicit contract as it can be claimed it was not seen, not understood. Still we could do that. Only then members who do not take advantage of such promotion would be thinking "What the hell". Even updating our TOS to explicitly define Songstuff and Songstuff staff's ability to promote posts lost us Lemonstar as an active member, even though it asked for less permissions and gave Songstuff less rights than the blanket conditions in TOS for just about any other site. I am not saying we wouldn't consider adding such terms to our TOS, just that that is more fraught with risks than an explicit contract and just as likely to be found to be objectionable to some members but now with an added "trying to slip it under the radar" accusation. The only thing that is worse for me and for Songstuff is to stick our heads in the sand and hope for the best.

 

Or we reel our head's in and don't offer to promote outside Songstuff in as effective a way as we could. That only hurts the very same members we so want to help and promote. It would save a hell of a lot of effort I and the staff go to to promote artists.

 

Rock and a hard place.

 

So I thought, offer the contract. There's nothing unfair in it. Those who are happy to sign it will be helped. Those too suspicious won't sign it and won't get promoted. That seems fair. Not ideal. If people still don't see it as one hell of a bargain, it's their loss. I will of course try to persuade them of the good sense it makes.

 

What would you do?

 

 

[John W Selleck]

17 hours ago, john said:

What would you do?

Sign the contract, if I could find willing partners???????

[Cody]

Well I'll just jump in  and read post of ye old long-winded ones later hahaha...... had kind of forgotten about this thread already hah(have a silent partner on this one, but he don't matter, songs mine, and he's given up.....for lots of reasons, many touched on in other threads here  )

 

Old Forrester on a dirty road

Sometimes I think my head'll explode

When death rings that dinner bell

Pass the bottle of Rebel Yell

 

(chorus)

Anykind of whiskey you bring

is just fine

We can toke if you wanna

 

Anyday out of the week

is just fine

Time, I've got all I wanted

 

Other verses....all about Jack and Jim my only friends green labeled bourbon walkin all over ya etc, etc, etc....  and look out! it might even have a bridge....

Shine up the pie plate belt buckles and break out the Stetson that's never seen a days work and "country" this thing right on up

Don't forget that over exaggerated fake drawl   "country" enough? 

[Cody]

<---is terrible at business  The customer is almost never right, and not willing to bold-faced lie(or creative marketing, as I've heard it called haha) for a quick buck.

[john]

50 minutes ago, Patchez said:

Rhetorical, but, not sure the Lemonstar thingy. Just saying in case it's something you care for me/us to know. 

 

I am fairly sure he said it on the boards. It might have been PM but I really don't think so.

[Cody]

1 hour ago, Patchez said:

 

So, the Paradigm of Submission only, or Request only, or a Blending of the two (balance?)  -- that is the question, to be or not to be, then do I even exist if there in the woods when a tree falls but not on me?  

 

Nope, you don't exist if you've stepped in bear shit and are still pondering the answer to that old rhetorical question and don't hear the tree falling over the sound of your own thoughts  

[Cody]

I don't know the issues or person that that the best I can gather left the site because lack of promotion? and as always correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I guess it just comes back around to that perceived value thing.......my two cents is it was a net loss for all parties involved? or did  said person go get signed to a multi-billion dollar FB label  and now shuns everyone here that may of helped them out along the way.

[John W Selleck]

On 3/11/2020 at 8:55 PM, Dakota Cochran said:

 
So sorry to hear the loss of a modern Mozart, yet happy you are here and together enough to tell the tale J.W.S. 
 

Hi,

Just saw this one. Thanks. We lose too many, too early.

[John W Selleck]

PS still looking for musical partners. PM if interested.

 

[deArch]

I can play a kazoo. Never off key but  maybe a little fast or sliw

[James Anderson]

just   a  quick   update   for   every  body   i  have  at   last   finished   composing    the  song   for  this  challenge .  at  the  stage  of  doing  a  demo  for  the  rest of  the  team  to  work  on .  i  will  be  in  contact  with  the  rest of  the  A team    as soon  as  i   get the   demo   ready   

[king salty]

Is this challenge still going? seems to be taking a while to get off the ground, but I’m in if it’s still alive.

[Peggy]

On 11/23/2019 at 5:23 AM, john said:

Awesome. I thought a month, but as this is a personal challenge rather than a competition, it can take longer if necessary. The important thing is to go through the process, develop an appraise mindset and treat it very much as a serious learning exercise.

 

I thought once you have a team we could do a short workshop discussing some of the considerations etc. What do you think?

 

Hi King Salty,

3 hours ago, king salty said:

Is this challenge still going? seems to be taking a while to get off the ground, but I’m in if it’s still alive.

 

As @johnmentioned, it's a personal challenge, it be great to see you take a stab at it.

Peggy

[James Anderson]

covid    has  hit   every  part  of  every  bodys  life   it  will  be  good  to  have  more  teams  for    this  challenge     the  A  team  will   have  a  song  for  this  its  called   MRBLUESMAN   mahesh  will   be   singing   it   just   getting  a  map  of  the  song  recorded    will  be  incontact  with   other  members  of  the  team  so   they  can  help   to    get  this  song  to  a  standard   that  songstuff  will  want   to  release   it   

[James Anderson]

the  A  team   has   had   a  bit  of   change   with  members   with  covid   delaying   about  every    thing  in  every  bodys   life    I   have  a   new  member   ANDY   WILLIAMSON    he   is  multi   tallented and recording  and  producing will  be  second   nature   for  him    .   mahesh   is  still  part  of  the  team   .we have   recorded   the  first   draft   of   the  song   . 

we  will  look  at all  aspects   of  the  song   to   fine  tune   what   it  needs  to  make  it  a  hit  song  .