Challenge #16 What's The Gist Lyricist?

[Vagdavercustis]

Has everyone passed the challenge than?

[john]

HI Vagda

 

Yes, everyone passsed! Congrats to you all. I am so impressed by the way you all took on the challenge. I wanted to wait until I at least gave some feedback on the writes and the critiques before I announced the result. You should all be very proud of how you did.

 

Overall the standard of critiques was very good. Quite thorough when  it comes to the fundamentals of critique. There is some room for improvement, each of you has strengths and weaknesses, but I feel confident that each of you will be able to address those areas and move forward.

 

Reviewing the critiques themselves revealed quite a few things to me that from a perspective of writer development are very useful.

 

For example, titles. You pretty well understand the aspect of a title regards it's internal connection to the lyrics. ie, does the title reveal too much, how does it connect to the story etc. However, only one of you mentioned the other main function of a title... how mind catching it is, how memorable it is. It is a major function of a title and an important one to address during critique. One of the main reasons for chosing a main hook for your title is so that when a casual listener picks up on the hook, they know what song to ask for, what song to look for in the charts. If your title is itself memorable then a potential fan can hear the title once, even in conversation, and then know what to ask for, what to look for to download or stream.

 

One other obvious thing when reading the critiques was that there is a gap in knowledge, or disconnect, when it comes to understanding "why".  This was apparent in explanations. For example, there are layers of explanation when it comes to something like rhyme or rhythm, the meter of the lyrics. Why is meter important? What are the trade offs between one approach and another? Why should it matter?

 

But this is all good. Understanding comes from observation, analysis, suggestion and discussion. Critique. Often you will know the answer, but not necessarily be able to explain it. In learning how to explain it, you get a clarity of understanding, a clarity of purpose. We should of course discuss it in our group too.

 

I am more than happy that, from the perspective of critique level 1 you all did more than enough to pass. Some of you have a little work to do to pass level 2, but not too much (considering the rate of improvement), and a couple of you would be looking at trying level 3. All of which I think is excellent.

 

I plan to post up criteria for level 1, 2, & 3 along with recommendations and tips to aid development.

 

To improve, one of the best things you can do is practice on the critique boards.

 

When I get a chance I will post up a few other general observations and recommendations for improvement.

 

I for one was very pleased at the approach and result of this challenge. How did you find it? How did you find the challenge? What did you learn? How could the challenge / test itself be improved?

 

Cheers

 

John

[DonnaMarilyn]

Thanks, Les. It was an excellent challenge.

 

John, for my name: Donna Devine.

 

As simple as that.

 

Regarding individual comments by PM: I'd be pleased to have those, but there's no rush at all. 

Clear your plate first.

 

Donna

[Lisa Gates]

Yea! We all did it! Awesome

John for my name: Lisa M. Guzda

Tanx

[Kel]

HI Vagda

 

Yes, everyone passsed! Congrats to you all. I am so impressed by the way you all took on the challenge. I wanted to wait until I at least gave some feedback on the writes and the critiques before I announced the result. You should all be very proud of how you did.

 

Overall the standard of critiques was very good. Quite thorough when  it comes to the fundamentals of critique. There is some room for improvement, each of you has strengths and weaknesses, but I feel confident that each of you will be able to address those areas and move forward.

 

Reviewing the critiques themselves revealed quite a few things to me that from a perspective of writer development are very useful.

 

For example, titles. You pretty well understand the aspect of a title regards it's internal connection to the lyrics. ie, does the title reveal too much, how does it connect to the story etc. However, only one of you mentioned the other main function of a title... how mind catching it is, how memorable it is. It is a major function of a title and an important one to address during critique. One of the main reasons for chosing a main hook for your title is so that when a casual listener picks up on the hook, they know what song to ask for, what song to look for in the charts. If your title is itself memorable then a potential fan can hear the title once, even in conversation, and then know what to ask for, what to look for to download or stream.

 

One other obvious thing when reading the critiques was that there is a gap in knowledge, or disconnect, when it comes to understanding "why".  This was apparent in explanations. For example, there are layers of explanation when it comes to something like rhyme or rhythm, the meter of the lyrics. Why is meter important? What are the trade offs between one approach and another? Why should it matter?

 

But this is all good. Understanding comes from observation, analysis, suggestion and discussion. Critique. Often you will know the answer, but not necessarily be able to explain it. In learning how to explain it, you get a clarity of understanding, a clarity of purpose. We should of course discuss it in our group too.

 

I am more than happy that, from the perspective of critique level 1 you all did more than enough to pass. Some of you have a little work to do to pass level 2, but not too much (considering the rate of improvement), and a couple of you would be looking at trying level 3. All of which I think is excellent.

 

I plan to post up criteria for level 1, 2, & 3 along with recommendations and tips to aid development.

 

To improve, one of the best things you can do is practice on the critique boards.

 

When I get a chance I will post up a few other general observations and recommendations for improvement.

 

I for one was very pleased at the approach and result of this challenge. How did you find it? How did you find the challenge? What did you learn? How could the challenge / test itself be improved?

 

Cheers

 

John

 

I find that to do what I would consider a "full" critique would likely take as long or longer than it took to write the lyric in the first place. I think it's a balancing act. Some lyrics I can't get into at all, I just have no emotional involvement in what is being said. I don't know if that is because it is poorly written, or simply so outside my own experience/interest. With lyrics like these I tend to offer my thoughts on my understanding of the technical aspects of the lyric rather than the emotional. 

 

For example, I critiqued a song about canibalism said to be performed by some sort of new wave thrash metal band. I couldn't get into either the genre of music or the subject, so I looked at form, structure, the use of simile and metaphor and explained my understanding of what the messages/images were. I have similar difficulties with gospel lyrics (no I don't see gospel as canabilistic) for example.

 

I've received a few "paid" critiques in my time, and only received one I was happy with, ie it gave me things to work on, what worked and what didn't...

 

I thought I was pretty good at critiquing, but now I realise I still have a heap to learn. Thanks everyone for that insight!

 

I don't know if you are looking at something like this John, but a standard critique template would be a good tool. I might work on one myself, or perhaps a few of us could combine on this side project?... is this what you are hoping for you sly Scotsman, you?!?

 

All food for thought.

 

Cheers,

Kel

[john]

I really have strayed at points into areas that will eventually be a part of what will be a paid for product, and it is sort of complicating things for me. The planned product in question will be an affordable subscription based songwriting product, including some of what we already have here for free, but with additional support materials and much more. More intensive and more detailed. Somewhere between a songwriting coaching course and songwriter's professional development programme. Just now I have lots of the support materials done and some of the more educational modules written, put I am still pulling that together into the overall coherent course, plus trying to work out exactly how much time I would be regularly devoting to it, and if I need to bring in any specialists to fulfil any parts of it, before I can work out an end cost... You don't need to know all the details, and at the same time I have to be cautious about leaking too much before the launch time. Lol Don't worry I still plan to run this challenge group

I have been working on a few tools and templates, plus info style modules and ebooks (there are other ebooks, software, templates, subscription and mentoring products in the pipeline). Some as part of a paid service or product, some as future free give always when someone signs up for Songstuff or as part of prizes, some just to be available for me to decide what to do with them at a later point.

One or two are evolutions on what is already available via Songstuff articles and posts I have made over the years.

The point is, I have some tools, like a critique template, and a couple of very useful reference mind maps, but you get the best from them when they are used in conjunction with the reference documentation that goes with them! Lol

So my quandary, my dear friends, is what to give you and what to hold back. My natural position for 13 years has simply been to give everything away, but then if Songstuff is going to thrive and grow I am having to adjust to not giving everything away! Additionally, although I have worked hard over the years to create and build Songstuff, there is no doubt that as I am adding paid for products to augment all the free stuff, and to build on it, I am having to devote myself full time to this. If I am going to pay my bills I have to deliver products that are not only valuable, but that are seen to be valuable too. The more I leak, the less people will value what is in the product, OR I will have to try and develop something more on top lol

Sigh.

I explain all that because, as I say, my natural reaction is just to say here you go, have at it! But I have to keep things under wraps, and part of a whole product without devaluing the product otherwise Songstuff just won't grow into what it could be, and that would be a pity, and I won't be able to make a living running Songstuff full-time (or pull in other people full-time and all the benefits that would bring everyone here) and go back to running it part-time! However, if you guys make a template, that has a similar effect to me just giving you the one I have. Arrrgh.

A dilemma for sure.

I will chew it over and see if I can come up with something. I am not angling to get paid for anything by explaining this (indeed there is nothing I have done here that would merit it in my eyes), I am just being open and transparent about a general and ongoing dilemma.

It seems kind of ridiculous when we are simply talking of a template! (Actually I think the mind map is the meatier, more useful solution)

Never fear, I shall square this circle, or circle this square. Again! Lol

[Vagdavercustis]

It's nice to hear we've all passed
Thumbs up for everyone!
For my name: Jessy Snels would do

[Kel]

I won't use the quote function, that would just add to the size of the post needlessly. I understand your plight, John.

 

As you may well be aware of, I am undertaking a course I have paid for, and while most of the content so far I have seen before, it's not so much the content that has the value it's the context.

 

I'm no expert, but I offer this as some advice for free: It's not so much what you say, but it's how you explain it and provide the practical guidance in applying it, that people will pay for in my opinion.

 

I know I haven't yet read "everything" there is to know, but as I said everything we are covering in the course I have seen elsewhere, however it's the practical application of it that has the value, for me and the other students taking the course with me. And yes, the templates, the guides, the how tos--- DO NOT GIVE THESE AWAY!!!!

 

Feel free to test them on us, if not me though! (LOL)

 

Cheers,

Kel

[goldylocks]

Thanks John, and to everybody who participated and passed the challenge, also for the great group that constantly help one another with a team spirit! Please use Sandy Mason as my name.

 

 

Goldy