Challenge #16 What's The Gist Lyricist?

[DonnaMarilyn]

Oh, thank goodness!  Thanks, John.

(Having ended up with two verses rather than three. )

 

Donna

[JDHarris]

Hi John

 

 

What do we do with the final lyric, if anything, by Friday?

 

Jan

[john]

I think it would be useful if you could all post your original draft and your final lyrics in the same post within this thread/topic for easy comparison. I think that would be a nice way to round off this particular challenge.

I have been looking through each of the critique topics, looking at the initial critique and subsequent flow of discussion. It has been very useful for me in terms of assessing skills and understanding, and for adjusting upcoming challenges to more directly address gaps in understanding . I plan to post up some general comments and observations, however I am also willing to offer personal feedback either in topic or PM should you so wish it.

In addition to posting your draft original and final lyrics I would love to get some feedback in this challenge!

I will say just now, that despite the confusion over who had to critique what I have been very pleased at just how each of you had embraced the challenge whole heatedly, and more than pleased with general standards of critique

Out of interest, are any of you signed to a publisher or have a relationship with a publisher at all?

One thing I would like to add to all challenges is a round up session where you can each discuss your personal "lessons learned", even if that is to stick your fingers in your ears and go "la, la, la" whenever I speak! Lol seriously though, I think that sort of post challenge sharing and challenge review could really help highlight lessons learned that might otherwise be missed and also help you to fix them in your minds.

I didn't take an active part, but I have enjoyed this challenge immensely. Lessons learned? For me it is to more clearly communicate what is in my noggin, and to be as explicit and complete as possible when setting out instructions! Lol

[Kel]

Over the last few challenges, this group has grown more and vocal with comments about each other's works. Sometimes, "wow, that's great" sometimes something more detailed, but never really any critiques. Supporting each other with enthusiasm so to speak. This challenge has been terrific for getting into the nitty gritty of things, albeit for only a couple of songs each.

 

I haven't had much progress from my rewrite yet, just a quick positive response from Rudi... real life intrudes on our time so heavily these days lol.

 

I have been very pleased with the reactions my writers had with the critiques I gave, and continued to work through more details as we came closer to a final product.

 

I will say though, that both Donna and Sandy seemed to have the need to "justify" their rewrites. I feel there is no need for that at all. "Thanks for your input, here's my next draft," is really all that is called for.

 

I'll hold back on the lessons learned yet John, until I have more feedback about my rewrite, I may not have learned anything, after all!

 

Kel

[DonnaMarilyn]

John, I found this a rewarding exercise, both in the receiving and the giving of critiques. Every observation made by Kel, Jan, and Rudi (lucky me having three critiques ) was invaluable. The main point I came away with was that there must be no ambiguity (though I feel this is also genre dependent) - every element in a story needs to be clear. Readers/listeners can't read the lyricist's mind.

Sub-points/reminders:

- try to keep hook in strongest position(s) (e.g. first & last line) in chorus;

- always consider whether the song could be sung by an artist; a singer must never be seen in a bad light (at least in commercial songs).

 

To your question: Not signed with a publisher, but I have songs with two music licensing agencies. One song was licensed for a TV series (one episode). A couple of songs are on indie CDs, and a couple more have been played on online radio. Others are - I presume - performed by my collaborators at their gigs.

---------------------------------------

 

Kel, I'm glad you used the word seemed.

 

No 'justification' was involved. I responded to each of the critiques with an explanation.

 

I did this for three reasons:

1. To share with my reviewers what my thought process had been during my writing of the original and then my revising of the lyric;

2. To indicate to the reviewer whether I had understood - or possibly misunderstood - the points raised;

3. To indicate why I may have opted to make a choice other than the one(s) suggested.

 

However, if - with regard to further challenges - John feels that responding in this manner amounts to TMI, I'll be happy to cease and desist.

 

BTW, who is Sandy?

 

Donna

Edited October 15, 2013 by DonnaMarilyn

[Rudi]

I will say though, that both Donna and Sandy seemed to have the need to "justify" their rewrites. I feel there is no need for that at all. "Thanks for your input, here's my next draft," is really all that is called for.

 

 

Hi Kel,

 

Disagree. It’s a two way street. On your song (‘Big Fat Lie’), I have been waiting for a reaction from you, while you have been waiting for more input from me. This is a communication failure. It may be that you are right in waiting for me, but the point I am making at the moment is that a breakdown has occurred. Now that I know your POV, I will return to ‘Big Fat Lie’ and produce a further critique.

 

What was I waiting for you for? It’s implicit that some points raised in the main critiques are not going to be useful to you. You’re not obliged to agree with everything. So if you re-post the lyric without changes suggested, We must assume you have chosen to disregard them for a good reason. However, it would be nice to know what the reasons are, as that produces further dialogue which assists fine tuning a further critique on what are really the most important points in the work.  

[DonnaMarilyn]

Original Version

 

Hard As Diamonds

 

V1

Girl, you smiled and promised

You’d be with me all the way

And I leaned down to kiss you

Thinking there’s still time to play

 

V2

Girl, I knew your bound’ries

Glad of just how much you cared

But went ahead and pushed them

Risking everything we’d shared

 

Pre-chorus

When you left I couldn’t blame you

Knew I’d hurt and shamed you

 

Chorus

Hard as diamonds were the words

You threw at my illusion

They cut through the delusion

I’d had about myself and love

Hard as diamonds

Making my stupidity crystal clear

 

V3

Girl, I can’t help hoping

One day you’ll return my calls

Until you do I’ll wait here

Like a ghost within these walls

 

Pre-chorus

When you left I couldn’t blame you

Knew I’d hurt and shamed you

 

Chorus

Hard as diamonds were the words

You threw at my illusion

They cut through the delusion

I’d had about myself and love

Hard as diamonds

Making my stupidity crystal clear

 

Bridge

You left your favourite book behind

Might that mean something more?

Now I sit and watch the door

 

Chorus

Hard as diamonds were the words

You threw at my illusion

They cut through the delusion

I’d had about myself and love

Hard as diamonds

Making my stupidity crystal clear

 

© 2013 Donna Devine

-----------------------------

Revised Version

 

Hard As Diamonds

 

V1

You promised as the organ played

You'd be with me all the way

[And] I leaned to you smiling

Fingers crossed behind my back

Whispered I'd be faithful too

Always true and kind to you

But knowing I had secrets by the stack

 

Pre-chorus

Didn't blame you leaving

Fed up with my deceiving

 

Chorus

Hard as diamonds cutting glass

You drilled through the delusion

I’d had about myself and love

With crystal clear, unsparing words

You left no implication blurred

Those truths were hard as diamonds

 

 V2

I knew the boundaries you set

None were easy to forget

[but] I went on to push them

Risking everything we’d shared

Playing with two sets of rules

Now I know I played the fool

And took advantage of how much you cared

 

Pre-chorus

Didn't blame you leaving

Fed up with my deceiving

 

Chorus

Hard as diamonds cutting glass

You drilled through the delusion

I’d had about myself and love

With crystal clear, unsparing words

You left no implication blurred

Those truths were hard as diamonds

 

Bridge

I know now what I had and lost

For my arrogance, my see-through lies

For every hurt, I apologise

 

Chorus (x 2)

Hard as diamonds cutting glass

You drilled through the delusion

I’d had about myself and love

With crystal clear, unsparing words

You left no implication blurred

Those truths were hard as diamonds

 

Coda

If you were in my life once more

I'd never do what I did before

 

© 2013 Donna Devine

Edited October 15, 2013 by DonnaMarilyn

[Kel]

Hi Kel,

 

Disagree. It’s a two way street. On your song (‘Big Fat Lie’), I have been waiting for a reaction from you, while you have been waiting for more input from me. This is a communication failure. It may be that you are right in waiting for me, but the point I am making at the moment is that a breakdown has occurred. Now that I know your POV, I will return to ‘Big Fat Lie’ and produce a further critique.

 

What was I waiting for you for? It’s implicit that some points raised in the main critiques are not going to be useful to you. You’re not obliged to agree with everything. So if you re-post the lyric without changes suggested, We must assume you have chosen to disregard them for a good reason. However, it would be nice to know what the reasons are, as that produces further dialogue which assists fine tuning a further critique on what are really the most important points in the work.  

Point taken, Rudi, well made.

[Vagdavercustis]

Original version

 

Playing games

 

Verse:

I remember it all so well

The first touch, the first kiss

I was under your spell

So young and so naive

It didn't matter what others thought

You and me could conquer it all

All that matters was our love

 

Verse:

Soon we got in a fight

The truth caught up with you

Yes I knew you lied

Nothing was ever true

So you began to beg and shout

For another chance to prove

Our love could work this out

 

Pre-chorus:

Keep pretending

Keep the puppets dancing

 

Chorus:

Love makes us blind

Playing games with our minds

Sacrificing it all

For someone to be there when you fall

 

Verse:

I was just a foolish kid

Lost until I saw and found you

All the sacrafices I did

To makes this work, make it trough

I kept believing the same excuses

I knew that you would change

Even after all the bruises 

 

 

Pre-chorus:

Keep pretending

Keep the puppets dancing

 

 

Chorus:

Love makes us blind

Playing games with our minds

Sacrificing it all

For someone to be there when you fall

 

 

Bridge:

One chance after another

You swore it would be the last

Always caught you with another

Another girl from your past

I needed to stop myself believing

In the illusions you made for me

I pushed myself to leaving

Throwing away the key

 

Final version

 

Playing Games
 

Verse:

I was just a foolish kid

Lost until I saw and found you

All the sacrifices I did

To make this work, make it through

I kept believing the same excuses

I knew that you would change

Even after all the bruises 

 

Verse:

Soon we got in a fight

The truth had caught up with you

Yes I knew you lied

Nothing of what you ever said was true

You began to beg and plead

For another chance to prove

Our love could succeed

 

 

Pre-chorus:

Keep pretending

Keep the puppets dancing

 

Chorus:

Your love left me blind

Playing games with my mind

Leading me through a maze of deceit
Seducing me, knocking me off my feet

Sacrificing it all

For you to be here when I fall

You keep playing games 

Holding me down in chains

Stil you keep playing games

 

Bridge:

Your favourite game

Playing with my head

I was always the one to blame

The one who was better off dead

 

 

Verse:

One chance after another

You swore it would be the last

Always caught you with another

Another girl from your past

I needed to stop myself believing

In the illusions you made for me

Pushed myself to leaving

I'm throwing away the key

 

Pre-chorus:

Keep pretending

Keep the puppets dancing

 

 

Chorus:

Your love left me blind

Playing games with my mind

Leading me through a maze of deceit
Seducing me, knocking me off my feet

Sacrificing it all

For you to be here when I fall

You keep playing games 

Holding me down in chains

Stil you keep playing games

[Vagdavercustis]

At first I didn't knew what to expect from this challenge. I was really stressed about it, cause I suck in giving critiques. I've learned many things in the few months I'm writing now but some others are so much better in giving critiques. I guess that's why I've been stressing about it. Thinking it wouldn't be good enough.
But I did my best to crituque the lyrics of Rudi and Goldi. They didn't say I suck, so that's a good thing for me
I've learned that even without all the technical knowledge I'm still able to give good critiques (imo).
Everyone has his own vision on things and how they are supposed to be.
Opening up to other visions and see things in an other light can really bring up something great.
It's allmost like teamwork for me Jan, Lisa & Goldy brought up aspects that I hadn't thought about.
So they were helping me improving my lyric and set me to think about it. Without their help I couldn't have wrote what I have now. 
So I've learned giving critques is not about 'oh that's good' or 'I really hate that'.
It's about supporting each other to bring the best out of yourself.

[goldylocks]

Original
 https://soundcloud.com/sandy-mason-1/like-a-phantom-bride

 
 
Like a Phantom Bride

Verse

She whirls on the edge of reality
With hair white as her wedding dress
Holding an empty picture album
Of a marriage that doesn't exist

Verse:

Soles of her shoes are torn apart
From walking on love’s broken past
Her man took wings and he flew away
Like a fool, she thought he'd be back

Pre Chorus

Caught in storm of tragedy
Behind a mask she hides

Chorus

She lives,
She cries
Like a phantom bride.
She lives
She'll die
Like phantom bride.
She'll die
Like a phantom bride.

Verse

Holding a basket of flowered dreams
She throws gold petals down
He loves me, he loves me not
Falls softly to the ground

Pre Chorus

Caught in a storm of tragedy
Behind a mask she hides

Chorus

She lives,
She cries
Like a phantom bride.
She lives
She'll die
Like phantom bride.
She'll die
Like a phantom bride.

Bridge

Turning her face toward Heaven
Bending down on aching knees
With no voice, or spoken words
Her tears cry silently

Chorus

She lives,
She cries
Like a phantom bride.
She lives
She'll die
Like phantom bride.
She'll die
Like a phantom bride.
 
UP DATE Final Draft  
 
 
 
Final Draft NEW SONG with final lyrics to the tune The House of the Rising Sun.
https://soundcloud.com/sandy-mason-1/final-versions-of-phantom
 

 
Like a Phantom Bride
Verse

She whirls on an edge of reality
Her hair white as a wedding dress
Holding an empty picture album
Of a marriage that doesn't exist

Verse:

Soles of her shoes are torn apart
From walking over love’s broken past
Her man took wings and flew away
Like a fool, she thought It'd last

Pre Chorus

Caught in a storm of tragedy
Behind illusion she hides

Chorus
 
She lives,
She cries
Like a phantom bride.
She lives
She'll die
A phantom bride
She runs
She hides
Like a phantom bride
A phantom bride she'll die
 
Verse

Grabbing a hand of flower dreams
She throws gold petals down
He loves me, he loves me not
Falls softly to the ground

Pre Chorus

Caught in a storm of tragedy
Behind illusion she hides

Chorus
 
She lives,
She cries
Like a phantom bride.
She lives
She'll die
A phantom bride
She runs
She hides
Like a phantom bride
A phantom bride she'll die
 
Bridge

Once he saw blue eyes of beauty
But they turned green with jealousy
So, he left her,

Cause all he could feel was misery
 
Chorus
 
She lives,
She cries
Like a phantom bride.
She lives
She'll die
A phantom bride
She runs
She hides
Like a phantom bride
A phantom bride she'll die

 

 
 

 

Goldy
 

Edited September 2, 2014 by goldylocks
Removed white space

[goldylocks]

I really enjoyed this challenge, I think like Kel, said, each challenge is bringing us closer and closer to communicate with each other, and help in areas of writing lyrics where we may not be strong or just don't see the weaknesses. I look at it like an on going Brain Storming session, each one contributing to each others ideas, forming a powerful tool for song writing. Here are the valuable contributions I received from Vagda and Kel. I really didn't think I could give a good critique, because of not knowing all the technical points, but I think I learned a lot and did the best I could.

 

Taking  Kel's suggestion, I wrote a new bridge that shows the view point of why her lover left her. I used two of Vagda's ideas for my chorus and bridge. Kel also suggested die a phantom bride for the end of the chorus. So with the help of Kel, Vagda, I was able to rewrite my song.

 

 

Goldy   :luxhello:  

Edited October 15, 2013 by goldylocks

[JDHarris]

First off I will say to Goldie, you got balls!  I mean that in a good way.  Good job on not only your final lyric, but also vocalizing it, nice, very brave.

 

Secondly, once everyone figured out  who was doing who, things progressed well.  I of course don't know much technical stuff, but I tried to offer what little I could. 

 

Finally. even though I did not have much time to contribute to the group this past week I found this challenge to be extremely helpful and enlightening in pointing out my weaknesses, syllable counts, rhyme schemes, critiques etc.  It's all a learning curve for me.

 

Jan

 

 

[Kel]

Big Fat Lie

 

At high school I was nerdy in thick glasses

At college I found wire rims were fine

I couldn't make the football team

I couldn't cheer

I couldn't swim

And somehow I just bumbled through alone.

 

Those days are gone and now I have a girlfriend

A fancy car a nice apartment too

I never thought I'd have some-one

I never thought

I never hoped

And somehow I just found you in my arms...

 

What do they say when something

Seems too good to be true?

 

I might be living in a fantasy

A big fat lie

A foolish dream

It might be too good to be true...

I pinch my self before I sleep

To test the truth

Is not a dream

It might be too good to be true...

 

I'm sorry if I'm distant, dear, believe me

I need to know this isn't some big hoax

I can't believe

I can't be sure

My friends all say that you're not even real!

 

What do they say when something

Seems too good to be true?

 

I might be living in a fantasy

A big fat lie

A foolish dream

It might be too good to be true...

I pinch my self before I sleep

To test the truth

Is not a dream

It might be too good to be true...

 

We'll show them

It'll be all right

We'll laugh and dance all through the night

And in the morning they'll be wishing they were me...

 

I might be living in a fantasy

A big fat lie

A foolish dream

It might be too good to be true...

I pinch my self before I sleep

To test the truth

Is not a dream

It might be too good to be true...

But I have you,

I have you.

TO...

 

Big Fat Lie

 

[VERSE 1]

High school was a living hell for me,

College never seemed to be

The party time it was for many others I could see.

I couldn't make the football team,

I couldn't cheer,

I couldn't swim,

And I was always sitting on my own.

 

　

[VERSE2]

Those sad days are long gone from my mind,

Fancy red Ferrari I like to drive

On windswept seaside roads to make me feel alive.

I never have the rag top up,

I never slow,

I never stop,

And I am always driving on my own.

 

　

[PRE-CHORUS]

What do they say when something

Seems too good to be true?

 

　

[CHORUS]

Am I living in a fantasy

A big fat lie,

A foolish dream,

It might really be, too good to be true.

I pinch my self before I sleep

To test the truth is not a dream.

If it's really too good to be true,

Maybe it's the big fat lie it seems.

 

　

[VERSE3]

Here have a martini shaken not stirred

Made with a hint of lucidity absurd,

Lets walk together where the lines are clearly blurred.

Closer dear, you should see the view,

Yes closer now,

Still closer come,

And once again I'm standing on my own.

 

　

[PRE-CHORUS]

What do they say when something

Seems too good to be true?

　

 

[CHORUS]

Am I living in a fantasy

A big fat lie

A foolish dream

It might really be, too good to be true.

I pinch my self before I sleep

To test the truth is not a dream.

If it's really too good to be true,

Maybe it's the big fat lie it seems.

 

　

[bRIDGE - RADIO NEWS REPORT]

And in breaking news there's word just in that a man has climbed out on to the ledge of an aparment building.

He seems to be in some distress. We have a reporter on the scene, what's that he's saying, Lesley?

"Thanks Hank, it seems he's singing something to himself, he's just repeating it over and over again. I'll see if I can get the microphone close enough to make it out..."

　

[CHORUS]

 

Am I living in a fantasy

A big fat lie

A foolish dream

It might really be, too good to be true.

I pinch my self before I sleep

To test the truth is not a dream.

If it's really too good to be true,

Maybe it's the big fat lie it seems.

Maybe it's the big fat lie it seems.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Kel

[Kel]

This challenge took me on a bit of a roller coaster.

 

The hardest part I found was coming up with a non-humorous lyric. Rudi thought I wasn't taking the subject seriously (didn't fault me for that I must say) and I found reading that snapped me out of my delusion! Well, I wasn't deluded but brought me back to earth so to speak.

 

Between typing errors and simply missing a whole line, and a story that was too "camp" I did a total rewrite of the story, but kept the theme of living a lie. My third verse was originally more whimsical, but once again Rudi gave me a suggestion and I ran with it, and added to it to deliver what looks to me to be a disturbing insight into the subject. Lisa's story ideas from the first draft were I hope put to use, and I hope I also made it crystal clear this guy is disturbed, if not delusional. His whole life is a delusion to me.

 

I think the main thing I learned here is to communicate with those giving me critiques more than just thanking them for their input. It can sound smug or even arrogant to say thanks and either use or not without explanation. I was confusing explaining with justifying!

 

A final word (I always have one, lol) is there is no need to worry about whether we have technical knowledge or not, everyone has something to contribute. How a lyric makes us feel, did we feel engaged? Even just giving feedback about what the story says to us is valuable feedback for a writer. We may or may not be willing or able to make suggestions or offer ideas but it is all good for a writer to know. 

 

I've really enjoyed this challenge, and well done to everyone. 

Edited October 15, 2013 by Kel

[goldylocks]

First off I will say to Goldie, you got balls!  I mean that in a good way.  Good job on not only your final lyric, but also vocalizing it, nice, very brave.

 

Secondly, once everyone figured out  who was doing who, things progressed well.  I of course don't know much technical stuff, but I tried to offer what little I could. 

 

Finally. even though I did not have much time to contribute to the group this past week I found this challenge to be extremely helpful and enlightening in pointing out my weaknesses, syllable counts, rhyme schemes, critiques etc.  It's all a learning curve for me.

 

Jan

 

 

Hey, Jan, thanks for the compliment, I think. I had my husband add the guitar softly in the background, we are still working on it. He can play his guitar by ear, but he hasn't played for a long time. So he said he would help me for the challenge. I just wanted to hear the song put to music.

 

Goldy    

[Kel]

Hi all,

 

Please note Challenge #17 has been posted, but I don't have access to the main Group forum.

 

The link to #17 is http://forums.songstuff.com/topic/32936-challenge-17-barth-grooks-euro-tour/

 

This is a sanctioned event!

 

Kel

[DonnaMarilyn]

Looking forward to the summing up.

 

Donna

[john]

As you may know I have had a lot on my plate, so I haven't quite got to writing up some feedback yet. I have read this thread many times, coming up with some general observations and have collected a few comments I could offer to each of you individually, though so far only one individual has asked me to PM some individual comments.

I hope to spend some time on this tomorrow.

I also plan to issue all those who passed certificates, as promised. To that end I will be asking you to please send the name you want on your certificate. Mickey Mouse need not apply

Sorry for the delay in completing this.

[Kel]

Kel Abbott

 

Thanks John