Narrative Loop Challenge. It’s all about using...

[john]

CURIOSITY!

 

Hey Gang

 

This is a tough challenge, but oh so worthwhile as a technique to learn.

 

Have you heard of Narrative Loops? Sometimes called Story Loops? Novelists and copywriters (writers of sales copy) use them all the time. They are an immensely powerful way of using someone’s curiosity to draw them through your story/song... ie they keep listening to get answers.

 

So many novels, movies and songs use narrative loops in one form or another. A cliff-hanger in old TV series was a type of narrative loop, albeit a bit rudimentary.

 

I have an explanation here:

 

Narrative Loops

 

The Challenge

 

Well your challenge is to write a song, on any subject, that uses narrative loops.

 

Rules For This Challenge

 

1. Your title should open two narrative loops. At least one of them should remain open until either the bridge or the last verse.
2. Each verse should open a new loop that closes by the end of the same verse.
3. Before the end of each verse (except the last - optional), open a loop that you close within the following verse
4. Close a loop from 1. In the chorus
5. Open a loop in the Chorus that you close in the bridge or last verse
6. Close one of the loops from the title in the last verse
7. Optional extra, modify either open or close understanding of either one of 1 above or 3 above in the bridge

 

In other words, as an example:

 

Title - “Open Loop 1 Open Loop 2”

 

Verse 1 

 

Open Loop 3

Close Loop 3 + Open Loop 4

 

Chorus

 

Close Loop 1 + Open Loop 5

 

Verse  2

 

Open Loop 6 + Close Loop 4

Close Loop 6 + Open Loop 7

 

Chorus

 

Close Loop 1 + Open Loop 5

 

Bridge

Modify understanding of Loop 2

 

Verse 3

 

Open Loop 8 + Close Loop 7

Close Loop 8 + Close Loop 2

 

Chorus

 

Close Loop 1 + Open Loop 5
 

Chorus

 

Close Loop 1 + Open Loop 5

 

 

This challenge is all about using the listener’s curiosity and by teasing them with satisfying pay-offs along the way.

 

Good luck!

 

Any questions, just ask.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

@geographyhorse

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[Pahchisme Plaid]

John, can you provide us with an existing song that uses this method as a sample?  I think it would help me to grasp the concept a bit more.

[john]

Sure.

 

What is outlined is the brief for the challenge, introducing several ways narrative loops are used, rather than a definitive grand formula.

 

So take Sia’s “Straight For The Knife”.  It uses some of the techniques mentioned in the brief, but in different order, and it uses some techniques all the way through. It poses questions, answers those questions by getting you to infer meaning, then twists our understanding by giving more information that is almost the opposite.

 

Title
 

The title is mysterious. It is a statement, but it intones a question, “What does the title mean?” Maybe other related questions, such “What or who is straight for the knife?” Let’s call this Open 1

Verse 1

 

The first verse starts with intoning the question “Who does she want to impress?”. Open 2 The first half builds a positive image of what us going on, building the anticipation and sense of hope. We infer the answer to the question “Who does she want to impress?” as “a lover” or at least a potential lover. half close 2

 

Then it takes a darker turn, playing with our understanding. It poses the literal question “Don’t know your etiquette” Open 3 “I’m strapped to my chair and it ain’t because you’re pretty” Close 3 Open 4 (Why is she tied to a chair?) leading to the last line of the verse which does a lot, it Closes 4, Opens 5 (at least one loop opened) and hints at Closing 1.

 

Phew! It pulls you through the lyrics kicking and screaming.

Chorus

 

The first line re-states the title, Closing 1, but now we are not sure if it is a literal knife, a figurative knife or both! Open 6 It also opens and closes some detail loops (we’ll brush over them) but now intones the much greater question, “Why is he doing this?” Open 7

 

Verse 2

Why has she been crying? What has he done to her? Opens 8 He said some harsh comments Closes 8 She refers to his promises Open 9 (what promises?) She refers to his memories Open 10 (what memories?)

 

Verse 3

“Boy you draw me back in” Open 11 What the hell could he do to pull her back? “I'm hungry for your bad loving” Close 11 “But will someone find me swinging from the rafters” You don’t mean dead? Open 12 “From hanging on your every word” Ah, a figurative joke. Funny. Close 12 Was she talking figuratively all along? Partly closes 5

 

It’s a powerful lyric with a compelling story line that leaves the listener with unresolved questions, including Were we talking figuratively?

As mentioned, it uses curiosity and the need for understanding and answers to drive us forwards. It can have us debating meaning forever. It rewards us with tiny triumphs and satisfactions as we go. Loops can be nested, overlapped and perception can be changed.

Does this help?

 

 

[Cody]

On 2/2/2021 at 11:10 PM, john said:

Does this help?

 

by raising more questions than answers 😂

 

This is a toughie, I had a hard enough time doing the same song from a 1st and 3rd person perspective, and then I didn't even want to post the results hahaha.  I still might.....they usually take a while to grow on me.  I hate almost everything I do immediately after.  

 

This is really intriguing though! I will think on it.  It's something that's really hard to do in a song form.  Books/movies/even in an episodic tv show there's more time to flesh a few things out.  That is a good example above though.  

[Pahchisme Plaid]

Thanks, John.  It did clarify, and what a mind-teasing song result, but yowsers! Gulp, that's a tall order.  I think it's going to burn a hole through my brain.  Yes.  A challenge indeed.  Cody mentions the 1st and 3rd person challenge, which I also struggled with.  A least he can say he made the attempt.  I will say anyone who takes up this challenge will most certainly have an intriguing write and my admiration!  I want to, but the scenario--oh my, what does one write on?!

[Timbre]

The example from Sia's song was helpful but it still hurt my head  I'm still in the studying phase --trying to learn from some story songs. Here's one by Randy Travis that's a favorite with some masterful use of narrative loop. I pointed out some of the loops I saw but I'm sure others with a keener eye could pick up more.

 

Three Wooden Crosses - (Open 1 - who died? how?)

 

 

A farmer and a teacher, a hooker and a preacher 
Ridin' on a midnight bus bound for Mexico
One's headed for vacation, one for higher education
And two of them were searchin' for lost souls (Open 2-only 1 preacher--but 2 soul searchers?)
That driver never ever saw the stop sign
And eighteen wheelers can't stop on a dime (Partial close 1 - we know how they died)

 

There are three wooden crosses on the right side of the highway
Why there's not four of them, Heaven only knows (Partial close 1:  3 of 4 died; Open 3- who lived and why?)
I guess it's not what you take when you leave this world behind you
It's what you leave behind you when you go (Open 4 - what did they leave?)

 

That farmer left a harvest, a home and eighty acres
The faith and love for growin' things in his young son's heart
And that teacher left her wisdom in the minds of lots of children
Did her best to give 'em all a better start
And that preacher whispered, "Can't you see the Promised Land?"
As he laid his blood-stained bible in that hooker's hand (Partial  close 3 - hooker lived; Partial close 4 - farmer and teacher legacies are clear; preacher leaves Bible but feels unfinished)

 

There are three wooden crosses on the right side of the highway
Why there's not four of them, Heaven only knows
I guess it's not what you take when you leave this world behind you
It's what you leave behind you when you go

 

That's the story that our preacher told last Sunday (Open 5 - why does this preacher know the story?)
As he held that blood-stained bible up
For all of us to see
He said "Bless the farmer, and the teacher, and the preacher
Who gave this Bible to my mama
Who read it to me" ( Close 2 - hooker was 2nd soul searcher; turned to Christ. Close 3 - Hooker lived to be a part of preacher's legacy. Close 4 - Hooker's son becoming a preacher is also part of what the 1st preacher left behind. Close 5 - son learned story from hooker/mother. ). - Yowza!

 

There are three wooden crosses on the right side of the highway
Why there's not four of them, now I guess we know (Just reminding us that he answered all questions - masterful!)
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you
It's what you leave behind you when you go

 

There are three wooden crosses on the right side of the highway

 

~T

[john]

 

Three Wooden Crosses - (Open 1 - who died? how?  Open 2 - Is this a reference to Calvary?)

 

A farmer and a teacher, a hooker and a preacher 
Ridin' on a midnight bus bound for Mexico Open 3 - why are they going to Mexico?
One's headed for vacation, one for higher education
And two of them were searchin' for lost souls (Close 3, Open 4 - why 2 but one preacher, Open 5 - Why are they searching for lost souls? Open 6 - Are they specific lost souls?)
That driver never ever saw the stop sign
And eighteen wheelers can't stop on a dime Open 7 - Are they ok? Open 8 Are the three crosses for these 4? Open 9 Which 3?

 

There are three wooden crosses on the right side of the highway Close 2
Why there's not four of them, Heaven only knows (Partial close 1:  3 of 4 died; Close 8 Open 10 - why 3 not 4?)
I guess it's not what you take when you leave this world behind you
It's what you leave behind you when you go (Open 11 - what did they leave when they left?)

 

That farmer left a harvest, a home and eighty acres
The faith and love for growin' things in his young son's heart
And that teacher left her wisdom in the minds of lots of children
Did her best to give 'em all a better start
And that preacher whispered, "Can't you see the Promised Land?"
As he laid his blood-stained bible in that hooker's hand (Partial  close 9 - not farmer or teacher; Partial close 11 - farmer and teacher legacies are clear; preacher leaves Bible, saves a lost soul (close 6 - hooker))

 

There are three wooden crosses on the right side of the highway
Why there's not four of them, Heaven only knows
I guess it's not what you take when you leave this world behind you
It's what you leave behind you when you go

 

That's the story that our preacher told last Sunday (Close 9 Preacher lived!)
As he held that blood-stained bible up
For all of us to see (Open 13 why did he keep the blood stained bible?)
He said "Bless the farmer, and the teacher, and the preacher Re-open 9 - Not same preacher Close 7 Open 12 - why does this preacher know the story?
Who gave this Bible to my mama
Who read it to me" (re-close 9 the hooker lived! Close 1, Close 3 - Hooker lived to be a part of preacher's legacy. Maybe Close 4 perhaps hooker was pregnant and her unborn was the other soul searcher onboard? Close 11, Close 12 - son learned story from hooker/mother. close 13 because it played an important part in saving his mother’s soul).

 

There are three wooden crosses on the right side of the highway
Why there's not four of them, now I guess we know (Just reminding us that he answered all questions - masterful!)
It's not what you take when you leave this world behind you
It's what you leave behind you when you go

 

There are three wooden crosses on the right side of the highway

 

~T

[john]

It’s interesting when you break apart one of these. You learn so much, even with familiar songs.

 

The key take away is that the questions are like drugs for our curiosity. We crave answers even when we don’t realise it. When it is well done they tease us. They twist our understanding, make us think we have it and then they twist it again. Each answer is like a little pay off, a dose of satisfaction... this is why this approach can be so effective, and why it is so useful to learn. If you use it only in one place, use it with titles.

 

Cool, huh?

[Timbre]

Very cool. I love the lyrical use of denouement to tie up all the loose ends. And the Calvary reference was a good catch. Ultimately, this is a song about salvation. ~T

[john]

Well, hopefully someone will try the challenge. It is a skill well worth learning!

[Pahchisme Plaid]

Thanks for the extra example, Timbre.  I've never heard/read that one before (nor the one John presented).  Sung by Randy Travis?  I'll have to look that one up.  Reading those lyrics sent chills into my head.  What an awesome write.

It's an excellent challenge, John.  I do hope someone will be able to meet this challenge.  I'm looking forward to see what it produces.  Personally, I'm just feeling a bit insecure about it, but I haven't given up on the idea of it.  I love that you provide these challenges and I'm still considering it, just need the right subject matter and a good chunk of time to devote to working it out (I think).  Refreshing to catch you here, Timbre!

[john]

At this rate I’ll have to try it myself

[ALOPRODUCTIONZ]

gonna give this a go now I expect to make mistakes im sure with guidance ill learn from them. 

[ALOPRODUCTIONZ]

On 2/2/2021 at 2:39 AM, john said:

Title - “ol1/ol2 has it been opened or closed?”

 

Verse 1 

 has it been opened or closed?

wait and see as the mystery unfolds
like origami in reverse its controlled
what was it locked with how many know 
Open Loop 3/ what will come out if its open who knows?

Close Loop 3 well i do its living its bright as it glows

+ Open Loop 4/ the question to ask is how would i know?

 

Chorus

 

Close Loop 1 its rarely been opened yet whys it still closed?

+ Open Loop 5/ did i peak or  see it being enclosed?

who else knows?
has anybody else been told?

Verse  2

 

Open Loop 6 who wants to open the box why is it locked?

 the box was grey and solid like rock
+ Close Loop 4 i once took a look and i was in shock

Close Loop 6 secret agents hold keys to whats been locked
im not one i saw before i was blocked

+ Open Loop 7/ if its alive can  it breath did it just knock?

tensions are building each tick of the clock
every1 pauses and stops

Chorus

 

Close Loop 1 its rarely been opened yet whys it still closed?

+ Open Loop 5/ did i peak or  see it being enclosed?

who else knows?
has anybody else been told?

 

Bridge

Modify understanding of Loop 2

certainly not me as i saw it be closed
i saw it land and i saw it grow
i watched turn scared and begin to glow
i heard them argue and row

 

Verse 3

 

Open Loop 8/ its trying to break through the seams

+ Close Loop 7/ its trying to escape its scary indeed
it can more than breath

Close Loop 8 as it escapes it glows and it beams
its not from this planet
well that's what it seems

Close Loop 2/ the locks spring open as they try to grab it
every one is rushing around in a panick

 

Chorus

 

Close Loop 1 its rarely been opened yet whys it still closed?

+ Open Loop 5/ did i peak or  see it being enclosed?

who else knows?
has anybody else been told?

Chorus

 

Close Loop 1 its rarely been opened yet whys it still closed?

+ Open Loop 5/ did i peak or  see it being enclosed?

who else knows?
has anybody else been told?

😵

[john]

On 2/9/2021 at 5:14 PM, ALOPRODUCTIONZ said:

😵

Well done in documenting the loops as you go.

 

It might be a context I am unfamiliar with, but I I still have no idea what “it” is, which makes it hard to connect with.

 

Here your title might give a better hint, even while preserving some mystery. Another option would be to use the title to seed an incorrect assumption which you then flip or modify in the bridge.

 

I can’t remember the name of the movie, I have a feeling Denzil Washington might have been in it. The story was about a black girl, maybe 13 years old, who had been raped and tortured allegedly by the defendant. The defence attorney laid out the story in great detail, when he was sure all the jurors were feeling it, deliberately to demonstrate bias he flipped it to being a little white girl.... to much shock. The impact was immediate. As a technique such twists and flips of meaning work best with emotional connection... and that is something else lacking, feelings. Emotions.

 

So, try a different title. Something that hints or mis-hints at the subject. All the better if it is something emotive or at least something you can give an emotional framing.

 

The lack of clarity of what “it” is, undermines your narrative loops.... it’s like your needle ducks and dives, stitching fabric together only to realise you forgot the thread.

[ALOPRODUCTIONZ]

9 hours ago, john said:

Well done in documenting the loops as you go.

 

It might be a context I am unfamiliar with, but I I still have no idea what “it” is, which makes it hard to connect with.

 

Here your title might give a better hint, even while preserving some mystery. Another option would be to use the title to seed an incorrect assumption which you then flip or modify in the bridge.

 

I can’t remember the name of the movie, I have a feeling Denzil Washington might have been in it. The story was about a black girl, maybe 13 years old, who had been raped and tortured allegedly by the defendant. The defence attorney laid out the story in great detail, when he was sure all the jurors were feeling it, deliberately to demonstrate bias he flipped it to being a little white girl.... to much shock. The impact was immediate. As a technique such twists and flips of meaning work best with emotional connection... and that is something else lacking, feelings. Emotions.

 

So, try a different title. Something that hints or mis-hints at the subject. All the better if it is something emotive or at least something you can give an emotional framing.

 

The lack of clarity of what “it” is, undermines your narrative loops.... it’s like your needle ducks and dives, stitching fabric together only to realise you forgot the thread.

how about whats trapped in  the box? is it open or closed ? for a new title 

the story was sci fi and to summarise the meaning its about a dangerous alien that crash landed and I the writer witnessed this whilst after i watch secret agents (mib) contain the alien in a box it then became aggressive and escaped and I left it as a cliff hanger. I  wonder if it will make more sense after reading this, I guess i need to go back to the drawing board and make it more understandable